The Hollow Men V The Stone Roses

Prelude : A very brief history.

We came from Leeds. I (David Owen) was the singer and my best friend Choque was the guitarist – and we wrote pretty much all the songs. It was our band, we’d started it in the early 80’s – put out an indie single (Late Flowering Lust)…got a bit of press…put out an album (Tales Of The Riverbank)…got a bit more press…John Peel liked us, played our stuff on his show….got a bass player, Howard Taylor to join…. Put out another indie single (Gold and Ivory)….

We still hadn’t bothered to play any live gigs though….so, as we began recording our second album (The Man Who Would Be King) we recruited a drummer, Jonny Cragg – and our bass player brought in his guitarist friend from Manchester, Brian E Roberts.

We played our first live gig in Manchester, supporting The Lilac Time and then 3 gigs supporting The Wonder Stuff in Leeds, Sheffield and London.

By this point we had a few record companies showing interest and turning up at gigs and talking contracts and money.

We were still negotiating with the labels but we did manage to secure a live agent (sadly, I can’t remember his name) who started to get us more gigs.

He booked us 3 support slots with another band on his rosta. We hadn’t really heard much of them but he thought we’d all get on well together. The Stone Roses.

1 : London. Powerhaus. 15th March 1989.

It’s weird how your mind plays tricks on you. I have very clear memories of that gig, for reasons set out below – but two things about that night, that I was totally 100% certain of, I have discovered, are wrong…

Firstly – it was a Sunday night. Although it wasn’t – it was a Wednesday according to the internet. But everything I remember about that gig happened on a Sunday night….

We arrived at the venue first, in the late afternoon, maybe about 4pm. We’d driven down from Leeds – Mark Dempsey, our driver and road manager had got us there in one piece, in good time. It was an early gig, cos it was a Sunday (?!). It was raining and it was dark and cold.

We knew the score. We’d have to wait until the headline band had done their soundcheck before we could put our gear on stage. And we knew that sometimes this did not always work out well. We’d had a terrible experience supporting Texas in Leeds some months before, where they’d refused to move ANY single piece of their equipment off the stage in any way and we’d had to set up and perform in an area the size of a bath towel.

You never knew what you were going to get, some headline bands were fine with moving their gear and being accommodating and some were “prima donnas” about it and gave you a shit time, wouldn’t let you alter any settings on the sound desk, and wouldn’t let you touch their gear and were generally wankers about it.

In this case, we just had to sit and wait. And sit and wait. They were late. Very late. Later still…. And then even later. We’re starting to worry cos if they come and soundcheck and then we’ve run out of time and doors open, we just won’t get a soundcheck at all… This has also happened to us in the past. So we just sit and nervously wait. And wait….

Eventually they saunter in. They’re all very lovely and apologetic. And so it begins…..

Our road crew know their road crew, in the way that they always do….people often work for a number of different bands and they all cross paths here and there. So that’s a good start.

And their road manager lives next door to our guitarist, in Manchester, so that’s another plus.

And – our guitarist went to school with Ian Brown and John Squire and knew them slightly.

So, it’s a friendly start and we’re good to go…. The Powerhaus is an average sized pub, it probably only holds 80 people at tops. The stage is small, so is the dressing room, as far as I can remember.

And now we get to the single most memorable event in our encounters with The Stone Roses – the thing that I remember so vividly and the thing that, for me, cements them as total genius.

We’re sat on stools, around tables, in front of the low stage, surrounded by our gear – they’re loading their gear in and unpacking it.

The drummer, Reni, sits down, in the middle, at the back of the stage, alone, on his drum stool. Then the roadie brings on the bass drum and foot pedal and sets it down in front of him. Reni starts to beat the bass drum with one foot. A minute or two later, the roadie arrives back on stage with a snare drum and stand, setting it down in position – and Reni now starts to play the bass drum and the snare drum – a lazy, sloping beat. He’s very casual, just sat there, chatting and gently kicking out a steady beat. Next up, the floor tom is on the stage and this is incorporated into the drum pattern. A few more minutes pass. He’s still playing the same beat, keeping the same time. Here come some hi-hats – they’re put in their correct place, and now they’ve joined in the groove. And cymbals….and high and low toms…the whole kit is now set up, around the drummer, who’s not moved, but has just calmly kept playing the same groove, adding each drum in as it’s been set up around him. He hasn’t stopped playing. This has maybe been going on for 10 or 15 minutes.

Then, suddenly, there’s a bass amp on stage and then there’s a bass guitar and then a few minutes later, there’s the bass player, Mani, pugging in and joining in with the drummers beat.

A few more minutes pass and there are guitar amps and guitar pedals and leads and a guitar loaded onto the stage and finally John Squire ambles on and plugs in and slowly starts to pick out a riff with the drummer and the bass player. It’s still very loose and very casual and very natural and they’re clearly just trying to be efficient and set up the gear and get the soundcheck done. I have no idea wether they’ve ever done this before, if it’s something they practice and rehearse and make a point of doing at every gig. But it doesn’t feel like it is. It seems like it’s just evolved in front of our eyes tonight for the first time ever.

By now we must be at about 20 minutes – which is actually quite good time to get all the gear set up and a soundcheck started. The sound techs have now got everything mic’d up and then the singer comes on stage and takes the microphone. The rest of the band have still not missed a beat for the past 25 minutes or more.

As the singer opens his mouth, it all comes together at last : “Down, down, you bring me down….”

Fuck. We are all sat open mouthed and stunned. We’ve never heard this band before, or this song before, and we’ve just witnessed an unbelievable, casual, gear unpacking and full set up with the musicians playing the instruments as soon as they’re out of their cases and almost without even thinking they’ve kept it up for 25 minutes and now they’ve just slipped and slid into “I am the Resurrection” and they play the whole song through and they get to the end and stop and that’s it – soundcheck done. They leave the stage.

If you’ve never been in a band, I can assure you that it was quite a special moment. I’ve never seen any other band manage any kind of moment like that. I’ve seen bands set up and soundcheck super fast, in just minutes – we’d had to do it ourselves many a time. But the whole way they built the kit around the drummer whilst he played and then each musician joined in one at a time – it was like it was choreographed and designed to flow with the music. Quite extraordinary and, to this day, I believe it was unplanned.

Meanwhile, we’re speechless. But thankful that we’re about to get a soundcheck. And, quick as a flash, and without any complaint, they move their gear out of the way and we’re setting up and doing our soundcheck and it’s all systems go.

It’s probably fair to say that we didn’t fully realise the significance of what we’ve just seen and heard. At this point in the evening, both bands and crew are all sat in a brightly lit pub, drinking, smoking, trying to sort out sound and music and t-shirts and bags and where to park the vans and guest lists and friends and hangers-on and dressing rooms and what to wear on stage and we’re all still in our coats and it’s cold and wet outside and we’re all hungry and quite a few of us have been smoking and we’re all a bit stoned…

It’s only later that we come to realise what a special moment we witnessed – basically a thirty minute version of ‘I am the Resurrection’

My second well remembered ‘fact’ about that night is a conversation I had with Ian Brown. Everyone from both bands got on fine. Two Northern bands down in London for a gig together – of course we’re all going to get on just fine ! I remember Ian telling me that their new single “Made Of Stone” was out tomorrow – Monday (new releases always came out on a Monday – and today is Sunday !?…. but the internet tells me Made of Stone was released on Monday 6th March….)

Doors open. We’re on first. I can’t remember a single thing about our gig. It was the same setlist and gig we’ve rehearsed and played recently. We have a small fanbase of people who turn up to see us. I’ve no idea what the actual capacity of the Powerhaus is/was but when The Stone Roses came on there were maybe about 50 or 60 people there. It wasn’t packed but it was a great atmosphere – and it was a wet, cold Sunday night in March….

They still had Cressa dancing with them at this point. I’ve seen photos from that gig recently and that’s pretty much how I remember it – as much as I can remember of the gig.

But I can’t forget how good they were. SO FUCKING GOOD.

Everything changed that night.

We were blown away. It was like nothing we’d ever seen or heard before and it was just the right thing at the right time and we knew it was all over. The music that we knew and loved was suddenly dead in the water and we’d just seen the band that was going to sweep away all that came before them.

We were about to get caught up in the frenzy and the excitement just like everybody else.

2 : Sheffield. University. 7th May 1989.

In the weeks between the London gig and the Sheffield gig, The Stone Roses album had come out and everything had started to take off. Slowly at first, but you could feel it, it was like the countdown to a firework display.

It was a great atmosphere when we all arrived. Sheffield University is a fantastic venue with a really high stage and a nice dressing rooms and a balcony. We’d played there with The Wonder Stuff the year before and I’d been to lots of gigs there over the years. The Roses were in a good mood, we were in a good mood and we all did our soundchecks (I have no memory of them doing any special soundcheck this time, just a standard crew set-up first and then the band came on and played through a few songs) and then we all proceeded to play 5-a-side football in the University Hall for an hour or so. We sat around and drank and smoked and chatted. Our drummer had a problem with his floor tom and it just couldn’t be found – so Reni leant him his floor tom – the one with the Squire/Pollock splatter paint finish that matched Mani’s bass.

Again, I can’t remember our gig. We were good though.

The Roses walked on stage to “Don’t Stop” – I remember this because it’s my favourite track on the album and I’d wondered if they’d ever find a way to play it live – I suspected not – and using it as walk-on music was a great solution.

I was watching from the balcony, and people in the audience, at the front, were rolling lemons onto the stage – there were loads of lemons on the stage when they played. I thought that was a nice touch.

3 : Leeds. The Warehouse. 8th May 1989.

In my mind, the Leeds gig was a few days later, maybe a week, but history proves that it was indeed the very next day. But lots of my recollections are a bit blurred from that time, so I’ll have to just take history’s word for it…

It’s our home town gig. In our favourite venue. We’d played there before and we’d seen pretty much every great band that’s ever played Leeds in The Warehouse over the years. It’s our club, and we’re overjoyed to be playing this gig.

I can’t remember anything about the day…I suspect we were all the worse for wear after the night before. I can’t remember the soundcheck or the gig but The Warehouse is absolutely packed to capacity. And it’s very hot.

We were great that night. We had to be. Home crowd. Supporting The Stone Roses. By now, the buzz around the Roses and the album is getting bigger everyday and this has proved to be a gig not to be missed.

Thankfully, there’s a great review of the gig from Brian Skulle in (I think) Melody Maker.

The Warehouse had a very small dressing room and I remember all of us being packed in after the gig, Reni thrusting a small Fungus the Bogeyman tin at me, and asking me to take out the contents (a large lump of dope) and skin up.

It’s no surprise that my memory of some of the smaller details is foggy and sketchy !

The next day, when the dust had settled and we had a moment to look back over the three gigs with the Roses I remember likening it to football. The Hollow Men v The Stone Roses. We played three. Lost two. Drew one.

—-

People said The Stone Roses were arrogant. But I don’t think they were. They were confident. They were all great friends and they were close and they were tight. They knew they were good and they were getting immediate feedback from audiences and fans and journalists telling them that, indeed, they were good. Better than good. They were happy and they were proud. They never struck me as arrogant.

—-

About 6 weeks later, on 30th June, I’m getting off a train, in Leeds station, at about 10.30pm. I’ve just come back from London. We’ve just signed to BMG. I’m trying to get a taxi home, but there are no taxi’s. They’re all busy. There’s been a gig on at The Polytechnic – it’s just finished and everyone’s poured out and all the taxi’s are full and I’ve going to have to wait. I’m pissed off now, I just want to get home. I’m cursing the band who are playing at The Polytechnic – The Stone Roses.

POSTSCRIPT

It’s no understatement to say that everything changed when The Stone Roses album came out.

We had a very different sound to them. We were more indie pop – a bit rock and a bit folky at times. We’d just signed to a major label – BMG – and we suddenly found ourselves in the studio with a big name producer and under serious pressure from the record label to change our sound and have a bit more of a “baggy feel”.

We weren’t surprised. That’s the way the record industry works. The Roses were the hot new thing – their sound was the new sound – it was selling units and the kids were buying it and the dollar signs were ringing in the exec’s eyes and they wanted to find the next Stone Roses and quick. I’m certain there were indie bands all over the country stuck in studios under pressure from A & R men to copy the “Madchester” sound. And some of them did.

It was doubly difficult for us. We’d gigged with the Roses and our guitarist was from Manchester and a lot of financial pressure was brought to bear upon us to play upon this and change our sound to fit.

We loved the Roses. Just like everyone else. We thought their sound was great. And we’d witnessed it first hand, at a momentous time. We were caught up in it and it was infectious and everybody wanted more of it. We had to submit to remixes and image manipulation. Some of it was fine and we were happy to oblige. Some of it was cynical and driven by money and so it was hard to justify and feel comfortable about.

We were lucky that we managed to bend enough to placate the record label and then we slowly adapted and evolved towards a new direction that we were all happy with – with took on board some of the things we saw and loved about The Stone Roses and managed to put our own spin on it.

We released our third album ‘Cresta’ on BMG and had our moment in the spotlight before we crashed and burned in 1991 due to other pressures and ‘artistic differences’.

For the record, we all came out of it unscathed and did ok. I still make and release music under the names : Storm Chorus . Band of Cloud . Bonfire Hill .

Choque became a record producer. He got a Mercury Prize nomination in 1999. We still release music together under the name The FLK

Jonny Cragg, our drummer, went to the States, hooked up with some other Brits over there and formed Spacehog. They did good !

Howard Taylor, our bass player, is now a tour manager for UB40

Brian E Roberts, our guitarist is now a guitar tech for Fleet Foxes and Enter Shikari among others.Mark Dempsey, our roadie, went on to be a world class tour manager for Supergrass and still travels the world getting everybody to the gig on time.

There’s a Hollow Men “Rarities and B sides” vinyl album due out very soon